usctrojanman29_IHB
New member
They have to remember to get the mail forwarded too. Btw, I'm more than willing to allow parents to use my Irvine address to send their kids to Irvine schools for a small fee.bkshopr said:
Irvine Unified now requiring annual proof of residency
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Schools does not send out mail. Mails are costly and teachers send them home with the child. Unless the administrators conduct a home visitation it is too hard to catch the violators. Some parents volunteer their time with the school and get to know the administrator as their buddy system to be exempt from possible future suspicions.
During my tour of the Bay Area from 2001-05 I recall a TV news story on the Cupertino PD (or maybe it was Santa Clara Cty Sheriff Dept.) knocking on doors in Cupertino and demanding to see the room of the child. Cupertino school district up there was held in about the same regard as IUSD is here. I can recall a couple of the Cupertino schools landing perfect 1000 scores on their API. I guess the kids are smarter in the Bay Area than Orange County. Their parents probably make a lot more money, too. Boston2theBay told us so a while back.
Some have already reported that part of the paperwork indicates that the IUSD may send representatives out to homes from time to time to verify residency, so it's really not a stretch. I would imagine that they'll want to verify the residency of those who score less than proficient on the CST's.
Another incentive for violators to preach their kids to getting good grades making the schools even more competitive.
This is the reason why Asian school system works. At the end of the school year the schools eliminate the bottom tier achievers and send them out to join the low level work force starting with the 7th graders. It is the survival of the fittest and the primary reason why Asians are extremely competitive to each other and even among relatives.
You should look into the Piedmont/Oakland border schools. You think the IUSD/TUSD school boundaries are competitive... then you have no idea. Back when I lived there the Piedmont kids were reading Trainspotting for their senior English assignment, and they thought the movie would do... LOL, when the Oakland kids were just getting to Curious George. Irvine schools are a bunch of sissies when it comes to education. Boston2thebay was right, we are just a bunch a dumb white trash, with only a few Asians who leave here, who will never have a diverse job scenario in OC. You're in RE right?
With interest rates at an all time low, now is a great time to buy or sell a home.
Personally, I think that is horrendous. What that does is create a permanent underclass among people who may have had performance issues in grade school that had nothing to do with talent or ability. I think that is an example of the dysfunction of the Asian school system not a reason it "works."
Yes, but the scores are great, which is truly all that matters these days. Much of the competitive attitude regarding test scores comes from the comparisons made by research reports. They compare math knowledge of students in various grades in several Asian countries to US students. Of course, no one ever really takes into account that in the US students aren't kicked out of school and sent to learn a trade (or join the workforce as BK says). Nonetheless, the incessant drive for higher test scores will drive many districts to do whatever is necessary to "get rid" of the lowest scoring students. Since good ole GW's goal was set by NCLB for 100% Proficiency (of course, an impossible goal), Irvine schools will slowly but surely be caught in the net of "School Improvement" as a few higher scoring schools have this year. Sorry for the hi-jack.
Huh? That logic escapes me. First of all, Irvine was founded by non-Asians, and it's always had good schools and good students.
Secondly, the adoptee sample is biased - one would imagine that in any country or race, it's likely that affluent parents (ie. did better at school, got better jobs) would be more likely to be able to afford to keep their kids and not be forced to adopt them out.
I never got when test scores have become the be-all and end-all...I mean do we want to turn our kids into great test taking drones who lack social and developmental skills because they do not have a well balanced environment of learning (sports, music, etc)? Kids that do not have a well balanced learning environment and are all about grades & test scores grow up to be intraverted, socially inept adults with a lack of common sense and "soft" skills (communication, negotiation, thinking outside of the box).
I tell my kids that it's stupid to cheat. If you cheat, you don't learn anything. If you don't learn - how are you supposed to be able to do things and be useful to employers later in life? Cheaters only cheat themselves out of an education.
P.S. My brother worked overseas in an Asian country and he was surpised that regarding job interviews it was all about what education the applicant had - the educational achievement pretty much guaranteed the job, and the lack of degree X pretty much meant the applicant would never get the job. This was weird to him because, in North America, it's all about can do you do the job, let's ask you some tough interview questions and check references to see if you can do the job and do it well. Perhaps some of the Asian parents in your comment above haven't figure that out yet, how job interviews work in North America.
I agree that Asian parents tend to press kids for good grades, but I disagree that Asian parents encourage kids to cheat. My parents were very strict on my brother and myself, and pushed us for good grades of course. My brother may have been spanked for getting poor grades, however, he would have been in deeper trouble if he ever cheated in any tests.
Being Chinese myself, I think the best thing my parents instilled in us is to be honest with yourself and people around you.
I also think this is more an issue with the older generation of Asian parents. With my kids (and I think many of my Asian friends share the same), our focus is on the motivation, learning habit and method. I believe good test scores should be a result but not the goal.
bkshopr_IHB
New member
usctrojanman29 said:They have to remember to get the mail forwarded too. Btw, I'm more than willing to allow parents to use my Irvine address to send their kids to Irvine schools for a small fee.bkshopr said:
Schools does not send out mail. Mails are costly and teachers send them home with the child. Unless the administrators conduct a home visitation it is too hard to catch the violators. Some parents volunteer their time with the school and get to know the administrator as their buddy system to be exempt from possible future suspicions.
kcmkane_IHB
New member
bkshopr said:
During my tour of the Bay Area from 2001-05 I recall a TV news story on the Cupertino PD (or maybe it was Santa Clara Cty Sheriff Dept.) knocking on doors in Cupertino and demanding to see the room of the child. Cupertino school district up there was held in about the same regard as IUSD is here. I can recall a couple of the Cupertino schools landing perfect 1000 scores on their API. I guess the kids are smarter in the Bay Area than Orange County. Their parents probably make a lot more money, too. Boston2theBay told us so a while back.
tmare_IHB
New member
bkshopr said:usctrojanman29 said:They have to remember to get the mail forwarded too. Btw, I'm more than willing to allow parents to use my Irvine address to send their kids to Irvine schools for a small fee.bkshopr said:
Schools does not send out mail. Mails are costly and teachers send them home with the child. Unless the administrators conduct a home visitation it is too hard to catch the violators. Some parents volunteer their time with the school and get to know the administrator as their buddy system to be exempt from possible future suspicions.
Some have already reported that part of the paperwork indicates that the IUSD may send representatives out to homes from time to time to verify residency, so it's really not a stretch. I would imagine that they'll want to verify the residency of those who score less than proficient on the CST's.
bkshopr_IHB
New member
tmare said:bkshopr said:usctrojanman29 said:They have to remember to get the mail forwarded too. Btw, I'm more than willing to allow parents to use my Irvine address to send their kids to Irvine schools for a small fee.bkshopr said:
Schools does not send out mail. Mails are costly and teachers send them home with the child. Unless the administrators conduct a home visitation it is too hard to catch the violators. Some parents volunteer their time with the school and get to know the administrator as their buddy system to be exempt from possible future suspicions.
Some have already reported that part of the paperwork indicates that the IUSD may send representatives out to homes from time to time to verify residency, so it's really not a stretch. I would imagine that they'll want to verify the residency of those who score less than proficient on the CST's.
Another incentive for violators to preach their kids to getting good grades making the schools even more competitive.
This is the reason why Asian school system works. At the end of the school year the schools eliminate the bottom tier achievers and send them out to join the low level work force starting with the 7th graders. It is the survival of the fittest and the primary reason why Asians are extremely competitive to each other and even among relatives.
graphrix_IHB
New member
CK said:
You should look into the Piedmont/Oakland border schools. You think the IUSD/TUSD school boundaries are competitive... then you have no idea. Back when I lived there the Piedmont kids were reading Trainspotting for their senior English assignment, and they thought the movie would do... LOL, when the Oakland kids were just getting to Curious George. Irvine schools are a bunch of sissies when it comes to education. Boston2thebay was right, we are just a bunch a dumb white trash, with only a few Asians who leave here, who will never have a diverse job scenario in OC. You're in RE right?
kcmkane_IHB
New member
graphrix said:
With interest rates at an all time low, now is a great time to buy or sell a home.
IrvineRenter_IHB
New member
bkshopr said:
Personally, I think that is horrendous. What that does is create a permanent underclass among people who may have had performance issues in grade school that had nothing to do with talent or ability. I think that is an example of the dysfunction of the Asian school system not a reason it "works."
tmare_IHB
New member
IrvineRenter said:
Yes, but the scores are great, which is truly all that matters these days. Much of the competitive attitude regarding test scores comes from the comparisons made by research reports. They compare math knowledge of students in various grades in several Asian countries to US students. Of course, no one ever really takes into account that in the US students aren't kicked out of school and sent to learn a trade (or join the workforce as BK says). Nonetheless, the incessant drive for higher test scores will drive many districts to do whatever is necessary to "get rid" of the lowest scoring students. Since good ole GW's goal was set by NCLB for 100% Proficiency (of course, an impossible goal), Irvine schools will slowly but surely be caught in the net of "School Improvement" as a few higher scoring schools have this year. Sorry for the hi-jack.
bkshopr_IHB
New member
The fact that there are no consequences such as expell and lost of quota. Parents in poor school district such as SA will not push their kids to trying hard. They consider school as free "baby sitting" rather than intellectual enrichment. Irvine without the discipline of Asians parents or grand parents from oversea the kids would not have done this well in branding Irvine school reputation.
In my daughter's class there were 2 Chinese students born in China in the bottom tier that will not advance to Geometry This seems odd to me but then I learned both kids were adopted from China by Caucasian Parents. This should prove that math smart is not in the genes but by nurturing environment.
I think it should be the privilege to attend school and poor attitude and performance should lead to losing privileges.
In my daughter's class there were 2 Chinese students born in China in the bottom tier that will not advance to Geometry This seems odd to me but then I learned both kids were adopted from China by Caucasian Parents. This should prove that math smart is not in the genes but by nurturing environment.
I think it should be the privilege to attend school and poor attitude and performance should lead to losing privileges.
Mcdonna1980_IHB
New member
I will share with you a couple of personal observations that have led me to question test scores.
Schools in the city of Cerritos, in LA County just North of OC, are much like Irvine schools. I use to have to attend annual events at one of the elementary schools in Cerritos. I became friendly with the principal. One year I asked her to level with me about the high test scores. She admitted that a lack of comprehension among the students was her biggest concern and challenge at her school.
Does anyone remember the Kiwanis Bowl that used to be the major academic competition in the OC? Somehow this competition disappeared about the same time schools started being test score driven. This competition was sort of like Jeopardy. The vast array of topics and questions presented at these competitions did not favor the test driven student. I attended the National Kiwanis Bowl once for support of a friend. There was a serious lack of participation among the Asians teammates at the competition. I have no concrete data to support why this was so. But common sense tells me this style of competition benefits the type of student that is well read, studies out of curiosity, and has vast amount of knowledge ingrained in their long-term memory.
I do have a lot of respect for students that have the discipline and hard work it takes to achieve high test scores. Certainly, this skill translates well into the workforce. I just dislike when high test scores gets equated with highly educated.
Schools in the city of Cerritos, in LA County just North of OC, are much like Irvine schools. I use to have to attend annual events at one of the elementary schools in Cerritos. I became friendly with the principal. One year I asked her to level with me about the high test scores. She admitted that a lack of comprehension among the students was her biggest concern and challenge at her school.
Does anyone remember the Kiwanis Bowl that used to be the major academic competition in the OC? Somehow this competition disappeared about the same time schools started being test score driven. This competition was sort of like Jeopardy. The vast array of topics and questions presented at these competitions did not favor the test driven student. I attended the National Kiwanis Bowl once for support of a friend. There was a serious lack of participation among the Asians teammates at the competition. I have no concrete data to support why this was so. But common sense tells me this style of competition benefits the type of student that is well read, studies out of curiosity, and has vast amount of knowledge ingrained in their long-term memory.
I do have a lot of respect for students that have the discipline and hard work it takes to achieve high test scores. Certainly, this skill translates well into the workforce. I just dislike when high test scores gets equated with highly educated.
Anonymous_IHB
New member
bkshopr said:
Huh? That logic escapes me. First of all, Irvine was founded by non-Asians, and it's always had good schools and good students.
Secondly, the adoptee sample is biased - one would imagine that in any country or race, it's likely that affluent parents (ie. did better at school, got better jobs) would be more likely to be able to afford to keep their kids and not be forced to adopt them out.
Mcdonna1980_IHB
New member
There is this small private college in California that produces some serious math genuses. There are no tests at this school. Test driven students would die at this school. The math curriculum revolves around the discoveries of mathematicians from ancient times to present. In place of tests, each class session students are pick at random to stand up in front of the class to defend the mathematical theorems of the greats all while their peers and professors do everything to disprove them. Oh and BTW all books are in their original language so better brush up on those ancient languages.
Schools that challenge their students to produce ORIGINAL thought are truly impressive.
Schools that challenge their students to produce ORIGINAL thought are truly impressive.
usctrojanman29_IHB
New member
It isn't only Asian kids that are driven and pushed by their parents to excel at school. As an immigrant who came out to the US when I was 5 from Europe, I would be confident in saying that most immigrant parents (whether they be asian, indian, european, african, hispanic) push their kids to do well in school because in their minds good grades translate into success (this can be disputed) like my parents did. For example, if I brought home all "As" and one "B" my parents wouldn't tell me that I did a great job...I'd get the 5th degree of why that "B" was there and if there were any problems they needed to know about (it didn't help being an only child either).bkshopr said:
I never got when test scores have become the be-all and end-all...I mean do we want to turn our kids into great test taking drones who lack social and developmental skills because they do not have a well balanced environment of learning (sports, music, etc)? Kids that do not have a well balanced learning environment and are all about grades & test scores grow up to be intraverted, socially inept adults with a lack of common sense and "soft" skills (communication, negotiation, thinking outside of the box).
SoCal78_IHB
New member
I would be curious how often Asian students cheat to get ahead. Back when I was in high school, some Asian kids were caught in a cheating scandal at the school. I interviewed other students anonymously for an article in the school paper. The Asian students overwhelmingly believed it was okay to cheat. My best friend who was from Thailand, said her parents encouraged it. I interviewed some Asian kids in A.P. classes who said their parents told them to do whatever it takes and if that includes cheating then that's what you need to do. This is not a scientific study done but it always left me wondering how prevalent this may or may not be. Any Asian people want to comment?
bkshopr_IHB
New member
Unfortunately we only measure a good school by scores. Asian students are good exam performers. The people who are motivated to improving society and do philanthropy works are seldom educated by Irvine schools
Anonymous_IHB
New member
SoCal78 said:
I tell my kids that it's stupid to cheat. If you cheat, you don't learn anything. If you don't learn - how are you supposed to be able to do things and be useful to employers later in life? Cheaters only cheat themselves out of an education.
P.S. My brother worked overseas in an Asian country and he was surpised that regarding job interviews it was all about what education the applicant had - the educational achievement pretty much guaranteed the job, and the lack of degree X pretty much meant the applicant would never get the job. This was weird to him because, in North America, it's all about can do you do the job, let's ask you some tough interview questions and check references to see if you can do the job and do it well. Perhaps some of the Asian parents in your comment above haven't figure that out yet, how job interviews work in North America.
Mcdonna1980_IHB
New member
Much in academia is debatable. Progress in academia is made by those that challenge the known to formulate a new discovery. Doing well on a test is easy. 1.) It requires developing a keen sense as to what the teacher will put on the test. and 2.) Looking up the testable items in the teacher provided material.
Bk, do Asian parents encourage their students to challenge what is taught to them?
Food for thought: Can a test driven society progress? If information is feed from teacher to student with the goal that student repeat said information back to teacher, will new ideas form?
Bk, do Asian parents encourage their students to challenge what is taught to them?
Food for thought: Can a test driven society progress? If information is feed from teacher to student with the goal that student repeat said information back to teacher, will new ideas form?
purpletulip_IHB
New member
SoCal78 said:
I agree that Asian parents tend to press kids for good grades, but I disagree that Asian parents encourage kids to cheat. My parents were very strict on my brother and myself, and pushed us for good grades of course. My brother may have been spanked for getting poor grades, however, he would have been in deeper trouble if he ever cheated in any tests.
Being Chinese myself, I think the best thing my parents instilled in us is to be honest with yourself and people around you.
I also think this is more an issue with the older generation of Asian parents. With my kids (and I think many of my Asian friends share the same), our focus is on the motivation, learning habit and method. I believe good test scores should be a result but not the goal.